Wabco E-2 mystery horn???

[moogman1978]

Hello all,

Does anyone know how to tell what year a Wabco E-2 was made? Is there a date stamp or a special number somewhere? I have looked everywhere with no luck finding any information about this. Is there any physical changes over the years to these? I recently acquired a Wabco E-2. After talking to the previous owner, he said someone in his family worked for a railroad in Northwest Indiana. He got the horn off a locomotive that was no longer being used. He said it was originally in an orange paint color. He had it for many years. He said he sandblasted this horn and painted it blue. So sadly the original paint is gone. That is all he remembers about it. He does not remember what railroad it came from but said it came from a Northwest Indiana Railroad for sure.

So looking around at railroads in this area, there is only one railroad that comes to mind that had E-2's in orange paint. That is South Shore Railroad. If this is true, this is one rare GEM in my collection. After taking this horn apart I did find evidence of the original orange paint on the clip that holds the back cap in place. Sadly, this is all that is on this for original paint. After doing some research about South Shore Railroad, I learned that this horn could be from a "Little Joe". Which is 1 of 3 made for CSS. 2 were preserved while #801 was scrapped in early 80's...? I saw some pics of it being scrapped on-line and I did not see any of the 2 E-2's on them. Could it be?

Here a couple pics of my horn. You can see the orange paint in the pics. Also this must of been dropped when it came off the locomotive. You can see the missing base on the manifold and the missing tooth on the back cap. This is my guess how this horn got damaged.

Paint on clip 1



Paint on clip 2



Manifold base broken



Back cap broken tooth



Here are a couple pics of the #801 after it was retired in 1980. You can see how close the paint matches up to my horn. Also, the numberboards are already gone at this point. I can not say for sure but I do not see the 2nd E-2 at all. Perhaps it is missing because someone got it already? Could be just the angles of the pics though. Most likely it was still there but who knows?

1980 Michigan City, IN

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/202 ... %20801.jpg

1980 Michigan City, IN

http://s3.amazonaws.com/rrpa_photos/202 ... 801-01.jpg

Here the link of the guy that took pics of it being scrapped

https://www.ebay.com/itm/143335769666?h ... R66nyNvCYQ

On a form

http://www.rypn.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=36457

Interesting form about the last time it ran

https://railroad.net/south-shore-quot-l ... 69493.html

I will be writing the guy who sells the shots on ebay to see if he remembers seeing the horns on it while it was sadly being cut up.

I will research this more. I know EJ&E had orange paint. There is always a chance it could of come from a Bethlehem Steel locomotive as well. I think they were also orange. DT&I units had some orange too. The GTW runs near me. This is all I can think of from NWI. Maybe some MOW equipment had this horn as well?

It could also be from something else from the South Shore? We will see. The plan is to at least repaint it back to the orange color. Of course I will leave the original orange in the small sections on as proff. The real question is should I have someone weld the base of the manifold back and weld something on for the missing tooth? The internals look great. I have just cleaned them up nicely. She should sound good when I test her out.

If any of you have some information let me know. I am very curious where this came from. The 801 was built in 1949. So if there is anything about E-2's being made differently perhaps I can narrow the search down more. I will update this post when I learn some more information.

Have a great day,

~Ted

[Mafarnz]

Ted,
The E2's did go through a few changes over the years. They do not have any date stamps or other markings to indicate a year of manufacture.

First off, marine service E2's were always bronze. Incredibly HEAVY! I've only seen one in collector hands and it's on Dana Dolfi's horn machine. It has two mounting bases, one in the standard location another 90 degrees that allows for side mounting.

As for RR service E2's, from their invention they were all cast Iron.
In early 1952 they switched to a cast aluminum bell with cast iron base. (My E2 is of this type.)
Around 1962/1963 they switched to an all aluminum construction with a stainless steel nozzle insert.

I had the fortunate luck to restore an E2 off a Milwaukee Little Joe for a friend of mine that owns it. It was made in 1948, and it looked identical to the one you have, including the locking plate that keeps the back cap from turning. Your guess of a South Shore 800 class (the South Shore never called them Joe's) is a likely guess. E2's were also common on non-EMD locomotives, especially Baldwin and Lima diesels.

[moogman1978]

Hello Maddie,

Thank you for the information. Very cool about the bronze E2. Even the cast iron version is pretty heavy. Wow I didn't know they did not call them "Little Joe's". I did more research about this. I do believe this is either a 1948 or 1949 horn.

Bethlehem Steel did in fact have orange locomotives...however based on pics none appeared to be in the NWI area. So this can be canceled out.

The next bit of research is an update for the CSS #801. The guy who took pics of it being cut up worked at the scrap yard. He does not remember for sure about the horns that were on it. He said he will be digging up more pics to see and get back to me about this. This was not officially cut up until the early 80's. From what I learned, the 801 was retired in the late 70's and used for parts for the other 2 sister units. It sat in Michigan City, IN for a while before being cut up in Chicago. All pics that I see from Michigan City, IN I can not see both horns. I just see one. Perhaps the missing horn is the one I have? Still won't know for sure until I can see more pics as proof.

The last bit of research is EJ&E. Baldwin locomotives from EJ&E had 2 E-2's on each locomotive. The orange paint seems to match up as well. CSS and EJ&E orange look very close in color. With the old orange paint on the clip I have, it is too hard to tell if it is EJ&E or CSS.

What I did find is EJ&E #500 and #502 BLW DRS6-1500 built 1949.

Here is #500: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPi ... x?id=99692

Then #702, #704, #717, #722 BLW DT66-2000 built 1948

Here is #702:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPi ... x?id=99700

Lastly more BLW DT-66-2000's. #903, 909, 910, 912, 913, 914, 915, 916, 919, 920, 921, 924, 925 built 1948

Here is #910: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locoPi ... x?id=60223

I feel there is a better chance that this horn was from EJ&E. The story seems to line up better being that the guy said his family member got it in the 70's off a retired locomotive. Not ruling out CSS #801 yet though.

Here are some restoration pics so far.

Before stripping paint:

After applying Jasco's paint epoxy remover:

After wire brushing/wire wheel:

Washing it in dish soap:

All dried. Now it needs some rust cleaning then it will be ready to prime:

I will be painting this in Rust-Oleum safety orange.

I'll post more pics as this horn gets painted. Thing is should I have the manifold base repaired? Same with the missing tooth on the back cap? It still holds ok on my setup. This would be really heavy to sent out to have repaired. Unless it is easy to remove the bell. I have a feeling it would be hard to do this.

Another thing...that maybe you might know. The BLW's with 2 E2's, Did these have 2 pull strings? Basically 2 separate valves for each horn? Maybe they were all running off one valve so both horns sound at the same time? Same with the little Joe's? I know that the BL-2, F7A's, E8A's that I have been on, all had separate valves/pull strings for the horns. But I just wonder about this for the sake of making sounds for the model trains.

Have a great day,

~Ted

[Mafarnz]

Most locomotives with dual horns had a valve for each horn. The idea being you have a separate horn for forward movement and reverse movement/signaling the crew. So two horns, two valves, and two pull handles.

The Joe/800 electrics as built had two cabs and two control stands, each one having its own horn. On Milwaukee they keep them as built. The horn valve in the cab was only a 1/4” airline. This operated a valve that was bolted to the base of the horn that used the pressure from the 1/4” line to open the 1/2” line going to the horn. That way the horns had good response and didn’t tail off due to long runs of pipe between the horn and valve. Basically an air operated relay valve. Later on Milwaukee the B end cab was rendered inoperable, the windows plated over with sheet metal and cab equipment removed. Most of the B end horns were removed but a few stayed on till the motors were scrapped. The horn my friend has is a B end horn that he got by hopping the fence at the scrapyard.

The restored CSS 803 electric locomotive at IRM has an E2 & S2M that sound simultaneously, or at least videos from its debut run show this. I don’t know if this setup is original to the CSS or something the museum did.

[moogman1978]

Hello Maddie,

This is what I figured for most locomotives 2 separate valves. Makes sense.

Very neat information about the MILW Joe's. Crazy how the B ends became inoperable overtime. But this happens. Glad your friend got one. I am thinking about going around and asking scrap yards if I can get their horns and bells. I hate seeing history go to waste.

As for IRM/CSS 800's, The 803 actually is E2 and S-25 playing simultaneously. Mmm what happened to the original E2 horn? Kinda strange that it got changed to a S-25. Looking back at pics it got changed around 1974. Because earlier pics show 2 E2's. Maybe that is my horn? I really wish I knew. I wonder if the CSS 800's are setup up this way like how IRM has theirs. I can ask them them next time I take a trip out there. I'd actually like to record a real Joe since there is some models out there of it. Now that I learned the facts from you, it can be done correctly in the models. Kinda wish I had 2 E2's now for the difference in sound. Perhaps I can voice mine different for each recording. We will see.

Heres some pics 803 with the S-25:

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2313377

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=2313379

http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPi ... id=3714506

Thanks for the information!

Have a great day,

~Ted